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Evil, but cute & gay about it
...ramblings of the imperfectly innocent
Reason I hate perforce #139966294 
4th-Feb-2011 03:09 pm
gabe, frustration
# p4 submit ...
No files to submit from the default changelist.
Use 'p4 submit -c 746174' to submit file(s) in pending change 746174.
# p4 submit -c 746174
Change has shelved files - use 'p4 shelve -d -c 746174', then try again.

Huh? I can't submit a shelved change, like you JUST TOLD ME I COULD A COMMAND AGO?
Hm. That "-d" looks suspicious. Better check the help file...

# p4 help shelve
The -d flag (used with -c ) deletes the shelved files

WHAT?!? THE?!? FUCK!?! I can't submit a shelved change, SO I SHOULD DELETE MY HARD-WON CHANGES INSTEAD?!?! FUCK NO!
5th-Feb-2011 02:35 am (UTC)
Oh dear. I wonder how many people just go 'oh, okay' and run the command without reading help. D: D:
5th-Feb-2011 11:14 pm (UTC)
I know! I mean, I didn't trust this software before! *shakes head*
(Deleted comment)
5th-Feb-2011 11:18 pm (UTC)
Preaching to the choir, baby. :) I can only imagine how much worse it must have been with a bunch of added latency and configuration nightmare.

So, hey, how are you doing? Haven't heard much from your neck of the woods lately.
6th-Feb-2011 10:54 pm (UTC)
oh noes!

with the random deleting and whatnot

in other, happier, news: my sweet friends asked after you yesterday

got to be all cutely rambley 'bout my mr frank

how's school?
7th-Feb-2011 12:11 am (UTC)
Ugh. Some software is just too awful to have been designed that way accidentally. :(

Anyway, hi! Yeah, things are going better. Still, you know, trying to find time to live, and not just keep digging myself out of my todo list. But things are good.

School, uh, isn't going. I ended up not doing that this school year. But I'm going in September, so that will be fun. And difficult. Fun and difficult in roughly equal parts.

I'm sorry your contract didn't get renewed. Hopefully you'll get a new one soon.

You seem to be enjoying your crafting very much! It's really nice peeking in on your progress. :D

I should give you a call soon; we should catch up on things. Maybe this week? I hope you have a great day.
17th-Feb-2011 05:06 am (UTC)
loverly chatting with you tonight!

good luck on the great tea quest of 2011

9th-Feb-2012 03:51 pm (UTC) - Breaking it down
Hey, Perforce employee here. Saw your tweet and thought I would weigh in with a bit of explanation. I agree it's a little confusing, but it's mostly a UI/UX thing and not a potentially dangerous thing like it might seem. The steps are seeing the following:

1) There is nothing on the default changelist so it tells you about a pending change you could submit instead.

2) That pending change has both open and shelved files. You can't submit from a changelist with shelved files so it tells you how to delete the shelved files.

What I think it -should- do is give you the option to either delete the shelved files, or (what will probably make more sense to most folks) move the open files to the default change and submit there. This has come up before as a common action sequence: shelve, commit, then delete shelf after the changes have been submitted successfully.

As one of the experts pointed out to me, it's important to note that deleting a shelf doesn't delete/revert the open files in the workspace. You wouldn't have actually lost any work here.

I'll make the suggestion to UI/UX for a bit better explanation/workflow on the recommended actions, but feel free to hit us with questions in the meantime. Hope that helps ease the pain, at least a little. We're also wide open to suggestions at http://p4ideax.com so feel free to drop by and air your most wanted feature requests/changes. Thanks.


11th-Feb-2012 09:17 pm (UTC) - Re: Breaking it down
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I did later understand that p4 wouldn't have deleted my local files. But the point remains: p4 told me a command to use and said it would work and it didn't. It could have known it wouldn't work, and told me the correct thing to do instead. But it didn't.

This is totally aside from the fact that since "..." means "files at the current path level and all levels below it" according to the p4 glossary (and NOT "files in the default changelist....") that it shouldn't have been trying to only submit files in the default changelist. This is also totally aside from the fact that there's no good reason why shelved changes can't be submitted.

But this was just one of many, many, MANY ways that p4 is a terrible CM system (and that's coming from someone who administered SABLIME!). You never know quite what's going to happen you type a command (will it work? will it do what I wanted? will I get a mysterious error message?) and very often you find you need 3 or 4 commands to do what should be 1. I tend to liken it to that scene from Spaceballs: "prepare to fast-forward", "preparing to fast-forward". It just constantly gets in the way of development; a good CM system gets out of the way. I could go on and on about its failures (for just a taste, see this and this and this), but that would just get my blood pressure up, so I won't.
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